 | RestonWeb
Community Chatboard
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
AlexS
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 4155
Location: Reston
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| TheHeadHonch wrote: | | 1. Sprawl development may be what we have, but what we're hearing now is that we need "high density centers" as if this will relieve sprawl. It won't. |
In a different economic environment, higher density WILL relieve sprawl and gridlock traffic - provided planners absolutely reject any type of sprawl development requests. I've seen it work in too many places, so we may just have to agree to disagree on this.
| TheHeadHonch wrote: | | 2. I contend that the high level of unoccupied and/or sparsely occupied residential and commercial real estate in the county is evidence of overdevelopment. We've been hearing for ten years now that the dam is about to bust, and the area will flooded with new businesses. It just hasn't happened, and it isn't going to happen. |
We all know that our Board of Supervisors has been cuddling up to developers and contractors for at least a decade and pushing through development - that would have been built anyway - while the cheap labor was available.
I freely admit that I was jumping up and down, waving my arms and shouting for three years, trying to get someone to listen to me about the out of control upward spiral of the housing market. When I expressed concern to people here in Fairfax and in Richmond, some of the responses were not what you would expect from people holding those positions. Unfortunately, some of those same people have been re-elected.
We both know all these buildings would have been built regardless - perhaps at a slower space, but they WOULD have been built.
And because of the close proximity to the Federal Government, this is where the jobs are. Look around HH, there are areas in the country that have double digit unemployment already. This area however - though not recession proof - will feel the sting, but not nearly as severely as elsewhere, because THIS IS WHERE THE JOBS ARE!!!!!!!!!!
| TheHeadHonch wrote: | | 3. As far as my "looking to get out" goes, I still am. However, it's unrealistic to ask employees, especially those that have bought new homes recently to pack up and follow me, and sustain a loss due to the drop in housing prices....and no, I'm not going to reimburse them anywhere from $100,000 to $300,000 to compensate for losses on that order. It's better to sit and wait. |
Balderdash HH! In this economy, you can move wherever you want, and hand pick your staff from the cream of the crop - equally experienced at half the salary. It is commendable that you want to take your employees with you, and NOW you're using the burst bubble as your excuse.
You've been talking about this for nearly 2 years - when the housing market was most profitable and you could have taken your employees with you with a tidy little amount of jingle in their pockets. Instead you stayed put and complained.
You knew all along that this is the area where your business would survive, despite all your wailing. This is why you didn't leave during the good times. Please just suck it up and stop whing. You not only made your bed, you bought new linens as you settled in and took advantage of the opportunities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
X-Republican
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
From AlexS:
| Quote: | Balderdash HH! In this economy, you can move wherever you want, and hand pick your staff from the cream of the crop - equally experienced at half the salary. It is commendable that you want to take your employees with you, and NOW you're using the burst bubble as your excuse.
You've been talking about this for nearly 2 years - when the housing market was most profitable and you could have taken your employees with you with a tidy little amount of jingle in their pockets. Instead you stayed put and complained.
You knew all along that this is the area where your business would survive, despite all your wailing. This is why you didn't leave during the good times. Please just suck it up and stop whing. You not only made your bed, you bought new linens as you settled in and took advantage of the opportunities. |
This argument is complete NONSENSE, and typical of the "I'm in love with developers, and there are no problems caused by them" mentality.
You don't know TheHeadHonch, but I DO, and here's what's wrong, and might I add COMPLETELY WRONG with your info above:
The "hand pick your staff from the cream of the crop" implies to me, a complete lack of understanding of any work of any degree of complexity. ANYONE can become a realtor, a shoe salesman, a day laborer, or any other position that doesn't require extensive training. However, if "THH" develops products that work with medical equipment I think it's safe to say that the learning curve is just a bit steeper and requires a good deal of training. All I am is a low level manager at a local company, but I do know for a fact that once someone is in a highly skilled position, you don't just drop them like they're used banana peels.
About the time THH was CONSIDERING moving was right at the start of the decline of the housing bubble. He didn't make an instant decision then, and now, like many, he's trapped in Fairfax, at least for a while. As such, he should COMPLAIN AND COMPLAIN FREQUENTLY about the mess that's been going on here since the '70s and continues unabated to this day.
If you recall some of the other THH's posts over the past few years, he has modified his business so it functions completely independently of this area. This area is nothing more than another customer on his list. FYI, if you'll recall, it was THH that terminated a branch of his business because the cost of having engineers being paid to sit in traffic jams was forcing him to drive up hourly prices for on site support and he felt he was ripping off customers. It was YOU, AlexS, that continually told us all THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN, and it was YOU, AlexS, that once again came along with the "developers are wonderful..we must Develop, develop, develop" song an dance.
Other companies in this area have to alter their own working hours to avoid traffic problems. There's a telecom company in Tyson's that has "normal" operating hours of 10:30am - 7:30pm just to avoid having people get stuck in traffic. Stanford Research Associates is a government contractor, that unlike THH's company, RELIES COMPLETELY on this area for business since they're govt. contractors and they gave VERY SERIOUS THOUGHT to leaving just because of the traffic and over development. Even as such, they STILL gave a lot of thought to leaving the area.
You're gridlock model doesn't work, it never has, and it never will. It's just the same old "GO DEVELOPERS" mantra you've been singing ever since you got on this site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Bruhns
Longtime Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 10448
Location: Herndon, Virginia, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
X - your points are good, but your energy is a little too personal.
_________________
Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stix
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 5191
Location: Reston, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
X-R's points may be "good" but they would benefit from THH addressing the issue directly. I stand by my earlier comment that prompted this whole line of discussion,
| Quote: | | That objective [the County GOP and Dem admin focus on economic development over the years] and apparent success is what brought many to the County, including probably most that post in these boards.. and I would guess, THH and his business as well. |
That THH is unhappy now and unable to leave the area is another issue. Perhaps he should have seen this all coming when he located his business in Fairfax County in the first place...
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexS
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 4155
Location: Reston
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| X-Republican wrote: | | The "hand pick your staff from the cream of the crop" implies to me, a complete lack of understanding of any work of any degree of complexity. ANYONE can become a realtor, a shoe salesman, a day laborer, or any other position that doesn't require extensive training. However, if "THH" develops products that work with medical equipment I think it's safe to say that the learning curve is just a bit steeper and requires a good deal of training. All I am is a low level manager at a local company, but I do know for a fact that once someone is in a highly skilled position, you don't just drop them like they're used banana peels. |
Somehow I doubt that THH's staff are the only ones in all of the US who are skilled in this field. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
X-Republican
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| "Skilled in this field" in this case would include knowing the ins and outs of his software products. This is the case in a lot of sophisticated work and the learning curve is high. You just don't drop one individual and shoe horn another in and like magic everything is running fine again. I've seen learning curves at some employers be on the order of two years for some products. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexS
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 4155
Location: Reston
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| X-Republican wrote: | | "Skilled in this field" in this case would include knowing the ins and outs of his software products. This is the case in a lot of sophisticated work and the learning curve is high. You just don't drop one individual and shoe horn another in and like magic everything is running fine again. I've seen learning curves at some employers be on the order of two years for some products. |
Sorry X, this doesn't make any sense. If THH and his staff are so specialized and he has dibs on this very tiny niche that is in such high demand in the medical field, then he is making money hands over fist.
Spending a few hundred thousand dollars is but a drop in the bucket if he wants to relocate his "highly skilled" staff who can't be found anywhere else in the US.
You contradict yourself.
That THH has been crying wolf for so long doesn't lend well to crediblity either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Bruhns
Longtime Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 10448
Location: Herndon, Virginia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I know my own employer isn't happy with the exorbitant rental rate we have been paying for the past nine years that I have been working there. I also know they they went out and looked at all of the empty space around the Route 28 corridor, back as far as five years ago, and they very well noted the empty parking lots, and they told me that real estate agents told them that office space in this region was about 39% unoccupied. No, it's not all underground parking - we went inside the buildings, and there was plen-ty of unfinished space. Somehow the building owners can hard-nose it, and stay empty, and hold out for high rents. I wonder where the money comes from for that. It sure isn't coming from rent on empty units, unless there is some tax advantage to that.
Back in Fairfax, one big private business and some government connected businesses left our building, and it has remained rather lightly occupied ever since. Where we used to have the towtrucks pulling extra cars out every day, now we have a half-empty lot - and no, there is no underground parking. And it's been half-empty for three years. The bosses keep wangling some deal to use the empty space while the owner tries to find a renter, and probably half of the building space is unused. (It's -not- commercial storage, not at that cost per square foot.)
I was always opposed to moving, because of the upheaval it would cause. But eventually I have to look beyond the daily emergencies, because a lot of money flows every month to the landlord. We could probably hire one or two more employees if we relocated to some other area, from the savings in rent. There are only ten of us there now.
Why we don't move out to Winchester, I don't know. There has been talk of this, and some say 'Why not North Carolina?' And we could go anywhere. Because we do international business, there is some advantage to being near to Washington DC and the embassies, and it is convenient to be close to Dulles airport, but I really don't think that this is decisive. I think it's inertia - we are able to sustain this extra expense, so we simply stay where we are. But it's less and less sensible to continue to do this. The business suffers, and we the employees suffer, from extra work due to lighter staffing, and from higher taxes and living costs.
_________________
Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheHeadHonch
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 920
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
AlexS wrote:
| Quote: | Sorry X, this doesn't make any sense. If THH and his staff are so specialized and he has dibs on this very tiny niche that is in such high demand in the medical field, then he is making money hands over fist.
Spending a few hundred thousand dollars is but a drop in the bucket if he wants to relocate his "highly skilled" staff who can't be found anywhere else in the US.
You contradict yourself.
That THH has been crying wolf for so long doesn't lend well to crediblity either. |
X-Republican is right, and you're just plain dead wrong. What you don't like is that the owner of a business, and other owners of businesses in this area, see little or no merit in the over development of the county, and in many cases it's interfering with business. I know of very few people that are happy with the over development and corresponding mismanagement of the county, except for those that have money to make off of it.
You don't have any idea what I do, and yet you seem to claim that people I've been working with for years can simply, as X-Republican put it, be "shoe horned" in with replacements in from anywhere else in the country. That sort of attitude might work if my business was something like car sales, real estate, bill collecting, etc. etc, where the technical expertise level is low, but it just doesn't work that way with software products that have code bases on the order of hundreds of megabytes of code. It's also ludicrous to assume that since we make a lot of money, we just go around throwing out hundreds of thousands of dollars like it's pocket change. No business that's sound makes such foolhardy decisions.
You and stix have both incorrectly referenced, or at least implied, that I "moved to this area to build my business" which is also completely incorrect, and might in fact be a deliberate distortion. When I came to this area I was a teenager and came with my parents, and the development fest in Fairfax didn't exist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stix
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 5191
Location: Reston, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheHeadHonch wrote: | | You and stix have both incorrectly referenced, or at least implied, that I "moved to this area to build my business" which is also completely incorrect, and might in fact be a deliberate distortion. When I came to this area I was a teenager and came with my parents, and the development fest in Fairfax didn't exist. |
I made no such implication. Unless you inherited your business from your father that brought you to Fairfax County, you chose to start your business here. You keep ducking the answer as why you started here? I will conjecture with near certainty that it was because of access to customers, cultural benefits, good schools and university opportunities and especially the excellent market for technical talent.. all brought about in part by the County's active economic development activities over the years....
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexS
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 4155
Location: Reston
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheHeadHonch wrote: |
You don't have any idea what I do |
THH, It doesn't matter what you do. For nearly two years, you have complained about over development and made empty promises to run away as soon as the opportunity presented itself, boasting that you can hit the ground running anywhere else in the country.
You had many opportunities to relocate your business and staff while the economy was on the high side, which would have been profitable to everyone associated with your business.
Instead, you stayed put and continued to complain. To me this says:
your business is not as solid as you would have us believe
your business NEEDS to be in this area to survive
relocation was never an option
you have been the boy crying wolf all this time.
You can only cry wolf so many times before you are not taken seriously anymore. Bringing X into the discussion as your last standing gunner doesn't help much either.
As Bob noted, businesses stay in the area for many reasons. You never once mentioned the reason(s) why you STAYED. Despite your trail of complaints, the incentive to stay was obviously greater than the incentive to leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
X-Republican
Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Posts: 413
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
More ridiculous comments, AlexS. About the time TheHeadHonch ANNOUNCED he was considering moving is just about the time the mortgage meltdown began. TheHeadHonch did not "bring in X as a last ditch effort," X (i.e. me) simply stepped in when I saw what you're posting is nonsense. What you are attempting to do is discredit his critiques of over development by, quite honestly, making things up.
What IS clear to me is that AlexS has absolutely no credible management experience at all, hence why should any of your "critiques" of any businesses in the area or how they're run hold any validity. I derive this conclusion based on your following statements:
| Quote: | | Spending a few hundred thousand dollars is but a drop in the bucket if he wants to relocate his "highly skilled" staff who can't be found anywhere else in the US. |
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY with any business experience that amounts to anything goes around claiming that money is such a free comodity that it can afford to be wasted. That kind of mentality is what gets people fired.
| Quote: | | For nearly two years, you have complained about over development and made empty promises to run away as soon as the opportunity presented itself, boasting that you can hit the ground running anywhere else in the country. |
WRONG AGAIN. Once again, if you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have made such an ignorant remark. My boss has been looking into relocating the company FOR OVER 5 YEARS. You just don't pick up a company and move it like you pick up a suit case and go on vacation. Companies have to be re-registered, corporate laws and taxes need to be studied, possible loss of business due to the time consumed in a relocation needs to be considered, new buildings need to be found/negotiated/rented, people have to sell their homes and find new ones, new people need to be hired for those not interested in relocating, all equipment needs to be moved/re-setup, all clients need to be informed of the move, web sites need to be changed to address the relocation....TO NAME A FEW, HIGH LEVEL THINGS INVOLVED IN MOVING A COMPANY. If you knew what you were talking about, you would have known this, and how complicated something like this will be.
| Quote: | | Bringing X into the discussion as your last standing gunner doesn't help much either. |
That comment is nothing but a FLAT OUT FABRICATION AND LIE!!
What you, stix, and other pro-developers on this site don't like is that PEOPLE WITH CREDIBILITY are now openly complaining about over development in the area.
Your solution: Fabricate rubbish to try and discredit him!!
Everyone knows local politicians frequent this site periodically, and the last thing the Rah-Rah Developer Team wants is some politician getting on the site and reading complaints from REAL BUSINESSES AND BUSINESS LEADERS being critical of over development and all the STUPID high density plans being forced down residents throats.
I, personally, will continue to complain about developers and the county's misguided development plans until they are changed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlexS
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 4155
Location: Reston
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Last edited by AlexS on Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Bruhns
Longtime Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 10448
Location: Herndon, Virginia, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Enough personal nonsense. This is about 70% "you are invalid" argument.
_________________
Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stix
Longtime Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 5191
Location: Reston, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| X-Republican wrote: | | What you, stix, and other pro-developers on this site don't like is that PEOPLE WITH CREDIBILITY are now openly complaining about over development in the area. Your solution: Fabricate rubbish to try and discredit him!! |
Please be fair X-R.. if you choose to read most of what I have written in this thread, you will note I have to a large extent agreed with THH.. certainly not disagreed with his concerns about currently overdeveloped commercial real estate.
But, I have taken issue with his waffling as to why he started his business in this County.. but only when he objected to my conjecture as to why most workers and businesses land in Fairfax County.. the positive amenities it provides. I am sort of a glass-is-half-full person.
But congratulations, you have caught me with my pants down.. I am “pro-development” in certain areas that I certainly do not think we are “overdeveloped”, namely,
Transportation infrastructure
Public Utilities infrastructure
Communications infrastructure
Legal/Court/Jail facilities
Hospitals and Medical facilities
Senior/Assisted Living facilities
Police Stations/Sub-stations
Fire/EMS facilities
Schools
Libraries
Recreation facilities
And I “heart” the developer that built my house and community.
Whew, I feel better now that I am ‘out of the closet’ so to speak, thanks to you. 2009 is off to a good start afterall...
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
