RestonWeb

[stix]

One can hardly argue that the moral foundation engendered by Christianity was a major factor in the founding of our Constitution.. more so than the tenets of any other religion or non-theist belief system. This Wallbuilders report illustrates quite well the influence of Christian belief on this nation.

Are we still a Christian nation? In the same sense that most of the people and elected legislators of this country are Christians (or at least are followers of the Judeo roots of Christianity), it could be argued that we are.

As to public life, many freely expressed outward signs of our Christian foundation easily coexisted for many decades, despite Constitutional prohibitions of any formal endorsement by our elected government. Sadly however, the secular-progressive political movement of modern times has worked to eradicate as many of there these important historical building blocks as possible.. one could say in contravention to the original intent of our forefathers.

Will we be better off for this continued ‘assault’ over the next 233 years? I for one doubt it, if only by looking at Western Europe and Russia as an example. How has the secularization of these other nations made them any better than us since our founding? Not any better, and in fact not as good would be my view…
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[Bob Bruhns]

An excellent answer is found here:

[stix]

As to whether the US is a Christian nation boils down to the definition of what it is that makes a Christian nation. Is it only the cold hard fact of the written words in the Constitution, or its it the moral foundation from whence the Constitution was developed, and the character of its people, then and today

The Rick Swanson LINK is only an “excellent answer” for those who (apparently like Obama) choose to ignore history, and to focus only on the question from the prospective of, “if it is not in the Constitution” it does not exist. Such narrow thinking is akin to contending that an automobile built in a Ford factory, but without any identifying markings or labels, is not a Ford.

One should read the Wallbuilders LINK to discover a broader view of our nation. This then leads to the inevitable question asked in the first post as to the future of our nation, as people like Obama attempt to split definitional hairs by attempting to either forget and/or rewrite history, and/or to deny the unmistakable moral foundation of the majority of its people, even today…
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[Bob Bruhns]

The USA is a secular nation where all religious faiths and beliefs are equally followed and accepted. Where a religious practice is in violation of US law, US law is supreme.

The good sentiments of religious belief and practice are positive contributions of religion. Religious wars such as the 100 Year War are bad things. The repression of scientific discovery by the Catholic Church long ago was a bad thing. The excessive power of the Vatican at that time was a bad thing.

Excessive power in a religious organization is a bad thing. The religious leaders seem to devolve into the same corrupt and despicable political behavior that is seen in other places of power, and that does not reflect well on religious belief in general. This is in stark contrast to the goodness and good sentiment of the individual practitioners of the various faiths. Their deeds speak volumes about the good side of human nature, and each of them is a witness to their individual faith.

The Church? Which Church? And which sect of that Church? There are so many, and their teachings vary in small ways and great. Their organizations are in many cases at each others throats. Each will argue that it alone is the right and only way. Each will argue that all of the others are false. Given time and power, each will attempt to stamp out any rivals in any ways possible. Given time and power, each would proceed to corruption and debauchery as we have seen, and in the process become in my view an enemy of all true faith and belief.

Because of this, I support the separation of Church and State, and I support the supremacy of the State on this earth.
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Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[stix]

I would suggest that thinking Americans support the 1st amendment of the Constitution and not the amorphous “separation of church and state”, especially as practiced by modern secular progressives, many of whom are vested in destroying all visible signs of religious belief.

One could argue that this assault is both an attempt to deny our unalienable Creator-given rights as delineated in the Declaration of Independence, and not in the best interests of the American society in general. They are actions that will make this nation morally weaker, and not stronger imo.

I have no coment about anyone that contends the "supremacy of the State" supersedes all else on this earth...
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[jeremy]

[stix]

Please jeremy, you know quite well that the authors of the Declaration of Independence made no reference to any particular "religion". But they did refer to a "Creator" (note a capital C, not lower case c as you have used) and to "Nature's God". Now even you must agree that these terms give strong evidence that they were thinking of a theistic relationship between the human and the divine.

None of this is to suggest that the authors did not have in mind (if not willing to put it on paper) some particular religion and God figure. In fact the primary author, Thomas Jefferson has been reported to have said,

[jeremy]

There's a big difference between calling us "A Christian Nation" vs. "A Nation which was founded as a democracy by a bunch of people who (for the most part) liked the basic tenets (morals) of Christianity and tried to infuse these into the founding documents but purposely chose not to brand the newly formed nation as being based upon that exact religion so as to not exclude those that practice any (or no) other religion". The former is easier to say, but is further from the truth than the later.
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We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

[stix]

Assuming what you assert is the greater “truth”, and in fact is wholly true (which could be argued), I see no incompatibility with your “truth” as a statement of history, and the conjecture that Obama could be wrong when he said we are not a Christian nation today.

Christianity is not the official religion, but it is the dominant religion.. and fortunately we largely still live by a Christian-Judeo moral foundation, despite accelerated efforts by secular-progressives to rewrite the Constitution in general, and the Establishment clause in particular…
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[jeremy]

[stix]

Don’t be sensitive about what I have posted.. I have made no value judgment regarding the moral codes between Christians and anyone else. But I do stand by my comment that since Christianity is the dominant religion in this country, we largely still live by its moral foundation.. clearly as augmented by others.

What I can’t understand is the Obama hypocrisy to say in a French interview a couple of months ago that because of the number of Muslim American’s in the US, we are “one of the largest Muslim countries in the world”, and on the other hand to ignore Christian demographics and say we are not a Christian nation…
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[Bob Bruhns]

Obama is a reasonably intelligent man, but I have seen him make inaccurate statements like how we owed things to the Muslim world that actually came from ancient Rome and ancient Greece. I agree that Obama is wrong to say Muslim nation on the one hand, but not Christian nation on the other. It's a little bit like Bush; Obama speaks a bit badly.

We do have more Muslims than many Muslim nations, and I agree that probably most Americans are Christian to some degree or another. But our government is scrupulously secular, and for good reason.
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Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[RestonResident]

I'm jewish. Based on our culture we clearly are not a christian nation. you can scream all you want, but the majority speaks.

also the constitution was set up to protect the religion from the government. From the advent of the middle ages through the reformation the governments of europe imposed their brands of christianity on people. The roman catholic church which dominated the european world until the reformation was only the church of rome. There were several other large christian sects that were stamped out.

During the reformation in england, Catholics were burned at the stake
protestants were burned at the stake in spain.

The different versions of christianity can't agree on what they believe anyway. So how would this be possible? There is a saying in the bible belt: the only people who don't want christianity taught in schools are Jews and Catholics.

It is my experience that most people who want a christian nation REALLY mean they want a protestant christian nation based on their version of christianity.

why would conservatives who HATE government intervention want the government to get its nasty hands in your religion. you want some idiot government bureaucrat teaching your kids about religion? Are you crazy?

[stix]

[Bob Bruhns]

Words of Thomas Jefferson:

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1650.htm

"I have been just reading the new constitution of Spain. One of its fundamental bases is expressed in these words: 'The Roman Catholic religion, the only true one, is, and always shall be, that of the Spanish nation. The government protects it by wise and just laws, and prohibits the exercise of any other whatever.' Now I wish this presented to those who question what [a bookseller] may sell or we may buy, with a request to strike out the words, 'Roman Catholic,' and to insert the denomination of their own religion. This would ascertain the code of dogmas which each wishes should domineer over the opinions of all others, and be taken, like the Spanish religion, under the 'protection of wise and just laws.' It would show to what they wish to reduce the liberty for which one generation has sacrificed life and happiness. It would present our boasted freedom of religion as a thing of theory only, and not of practice, as what would be a poor exchange for the theoretic thraldom, but practical freedom of Europe." --Thomas Jefferson to N. G. Dufief, 1814. ME 14:128

"The law for religious freedom... [has] put down the aristocracy of the clergy and restored to the citizen the freedom of the mind." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:400

"[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was finally passed,... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination." --Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:67
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Government debt and deficits are robbing your children, your grandchildren, and your great-grandchildren. http://www.usdebtclock.org/